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Game Selection Question

Brendan R
January 25, 2011 4:05:56 PM EST

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I've been playing a lot of short handed PLO recently at .25/.50 and .50/1 limits and have maintained a fairly solid winrate. A few days ago a player sat at the .50/1 table and immediately began playing incredibly recklessly. He would get in preflop raising wars and get his entire $100 stack in with hands like QQ96, K10109, AJ87 ect.. and if he got a piece of the flop (like 2nd pair) in a regular pot he would in most cases be happy to get it all in. There was crazy action at the table and I got a nice chunk of the $500 or so that he lost before he left.

This player has appeared a few times since playing the same way but he is now only playing 1/2 and 2/4 tables. I got in the 1/2 game and from the beginning was not comfortable at all. It's a much different game then I am used to and I don't think I would stand a chance really if it weren't for this player. He beat me a pot and then I got my money back later on from him at which point I left the table because everything was going too fast and I was stressing out. My question to you all is if it is worth it to sit at a higher limit table because of a maniac player. I've been watching him play 2/4 and he is getting crushed and I'm really tempted to get in the action but he can easily take my whole stack if the cards fall his way. The way this guy plays he will probably not be around much longer so should I strike while the irons hot or stick with what I'm comfortable with and hope he drops to a lower limit?
Kashuskay -
- 19 posts
January 25, 2011 5:04:58 PM EST

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If you are not comfortable at a higher table and/or it doesn't fit your bankroll then you should not play it. He is one fish but there are also 4 other players at the table and as you said there is no guarantee that you will a) get heads up with him and b) win. Players like this can get very lucky and while it's great to have them in your game it is devastating if you are the player he gets lucky with and destroys your psyche not to mention your bankroll.

Keep playing at the limits you are comfortable with and when your bankroll is sufficient move up an take some shots at the higher limit. If you want to progress you will need to play higher tables and learn to get comfortable. You can always move back down if you have a difficult time and try again once you bankroll is where it should be.

I think the problem many players have is that they play scared at higher limits which makes them uncomfortable and they don't play as well as they should. It's scared money. I'm not saying this is the case for you but it's food for thought.

Kash
Anthony Martino
- 494 posts
January 25, 2011 11:04:45 PM EST

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While I hate missing out on the potential profit a bad player presents, this particular situation has two things that lean me towards recommending you avoid it:

1. This guys playing style creates HIGH variance
2. The money is too big for you currently and makes you uncomfortable to think about losing it. This could result in you playing too timidly and getting run over

With any luck he'll get frustrated at the losses and drop down to your buyin level and keep donking it off. The only way I'd say it's ok for you to "take a shot" is if you are comfortable allocating a specific amount of money out of your bankroll.

If you can take xxx and say "ok, I'm comfortable if I lose this amount, as I can still afford to play at my regular buyin level even if I lose this", then go ahead and give it a shot.
Ronin1085 .
- 417 posts
January 26, 2011 12:40:50 AM EST

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I once went through this -- and I'd listen to Kash and AJ's advice. I was just playing the micro-games levels. Was always getting run down or run over one night. It was very frustrating.

But I knew I was the better player. So I basically said "F*** it" and made the move up to the 2/4 tables -- which is not in my bankroll range online. It was kinda like Mikey in Rounders, but on a very small level LOL It was a dumb decision to risk everything over just a poker session. I broke all my bankroll rules.

It worked that night, I made all my roll back and then some. But it was a stupid thing to do.

I would highly advise sticking to what you can afford according to what your bankroll is.

I got very lucky that night, had a good run of cards -- but as we all know, that's not gonna happen all the time with maniac aggressive players.

a good topic though -- should be a interesting discussion.
Brendan R
January 26, 2011 2:47:21 PM EST

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Thanks for the feedback guys. After I posted I realized I never considered the option of buying into the game short. AJ is right about the variance factor but loosing a few short buyins wouldnt be the end of the world for me so I set out to play him with this new strategy. Only problem is it seems everyone who plays PLO at Absolute poker is aware of this player and the waiting lists for his tables run 6 or 7 deep and NEVER budge. Players at the table will stay until he leaves. OH well.

This whole transition into playing cash games has been really interesting and I'm eager to hear your advice about game selection in general. I used to play tournaments primarily where game selection is almost 100 percent due to your bankroll whereas in cash games it seems to be mostly about the other players.

I'm making sure to make notes about players, add the bad ones to my buddy list so I can see where they are playing and I usually sit at tables where the other players are mostly short stacked figuring that this usually means they are not as good. I also use tools like pokertableratings from time to time. Is there anything else I should be doing?

Again thank you Kash AJ and Ronin for your thoughts on the maniac situation.
Ronin1085 .
- 417 posts
January 26, 2011 3:29:19 PM EST

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I am conservative with bankroll, so I may be wrong -- but in cash games I don't risk more than 5% of my online bankroll (when I listen to myself) lol

Others probably have better advice, but short-buying in these days can be futile, cause you might just keep getting run over. And, when you do pick up a hand everyone will know and you won't get paid off for it.

But that's just from my experience and I am mostly a tourney player.
Anthony Martino
- 494 posts
January 26, 2011 11:05:05 PM EST

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I'm not a PLO player much, but I would think if you've got people short-stacking you, it takes away some of your capabilities. Yes, they may be scared money, but it's also easier for them to get their entire stack into the pot and that keeps you from being able to run them over and push them off of hands (i.e. an arsenal for deep-stacked poker)

PLO was, to me, an always higher variance game that resulted in more coin-flips for stacks than you'd find in other game types. I'm sure there's obviously a skillset to it that I haven't developed due to not really studying/playing it much, however.

I used to play a good amount of 20/40 limit poker, mixed games mostly. But I'd also sometimes play 30/60 or 40/80. One day I wanted to take a shot at the 75/150 O.E. (omaha hi/lo, stud eight-or-better) game at Foxwoods. That was way over my bankroll. I think I bought in for maybe 4 grand, most of the guys there had 5-15 grand in front of them (many had been playing all night)

I made $1,350 in profit after a few hours, which was great. But the game wasn't something I would feel comfortable playing on a regular basis. What really caught me off guard is how mean everyone at the table was. I think the majority of guys were business owners, ran construction companies, etc.

Not one of them ever tipped the dealer, they were all miserable and constantly swore, yelled at the dealers, etc. You've got guys dragging four figure pots and they couldn't be bothered to toss a dollar the dealers way. Then you sit in a 2/4 limit game and some schmuck steals the blinds and he's tipping the dealer half the pot :P